A.min shared a comment of this post/conversation

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:08:57 -0400 from Bunny of Doom

Giac El Vecio wrote the following post Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:08:57 -0400

Some time ago I created a channel, more for politics than anything else, for Brazilians, where I only speak that language.
Today, every now and then it happens, I get into a conversation about the fediverse and activitypub, where one declared that activitypub is the best protocol and everything is built on top of this etc... some bullshit obviously. Then I remembered that the old friendica protocol is in some ways better than activitypub, and seems more modern. From here the bullshit escalated. I ask myself: before making statements, wouldn't it be better to experiment with various things and then say what you think, instead of just knowing one thing (activitypub) and making meaningless statements? Finally, if you take the link of the conversation in Mastodon, and then the link of the same conversation in other platforms, you realize how communication is problematic and leads to loss of objects...

@Giac El Vecio (giacelvecio@diversispiritus.net.br)

Bill Statler

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:46:03 -0400 from Bunny of Doom

I agree.

I try to have some sympathy for ignorant people, because I make the same mistake much too often. I have lots of opinions about Mastodon, but I have never used it. I mean, I haven't heard anything that makes me want to use it! But I guess there are things that some people like about it, and honesly, I haven't tried very hard to find out what those things are.

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:56:19 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

In this moment for ex. I'm trying to find a contact that use firefish inside firefish ( I have a firefish test account), and...I don't find him , but I find him using the old masto account... Firefish show me the old account ( that is in masto) and not show me the new account of my contact that is in firefish

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 16:10:05 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

and look how curious, using Mitra (test account) I found him immediately, that is, firefish > firefish fails, while other > firefish works.... God Save The Queen !

hubzillar

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 16:42:14 -0400 from hubzilla

mastondon is only useful for new connections of interest.

Jupiter Rowland

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:00:36 -0400 from hubzilla

I've once come across someone who was absolutely convinced that Mastodon and only Mastodon was, quote, "feature-complete".

I could have asked him about dozens upon dozens of features of Zot/Nomad-based projects and whether Mastodon had them. Starting with bold type and italics which Mastodon couldn't even display yet at that point, continuing through nomadic identity and ending up with WebDAV, CalDAV and CardDAV servers.

It's often a case of people who have spent three, four, five months or more "knowing" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. And Mastodon is the greatest possible thing since sliced bread to them. They were deeply shocked to find out that there's more to the Fediverse than Mastodon. And that this "more" isn't simply bolted onto Mastodon. Now they're clutching that one last straw that's their belief that Mastodon still outshines everything else in features.

In this regard, it's a pity that it's impossible to demonstrate most features that Hubzilla and (streams) have that Mastodon doesn't to Mastodon users because Mastodon can't display them. Or whatever mobile app they use can't display them.

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:10:46 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

In this case he said "Fediverse is not only Mastodon" and so I thought "Are you saying this to me, exactly to me? OMG"...So he has this conscience, but he absolutely doesn't know shit about the rest.

Jupiter Rowland

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:15:38 -0400 from hubzilla

The most hilarious part about this is that he apparently didn't even notice that you aren't on Mastodon.

And there I thought that the way Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) mentions look is a dead giveaway. Or the ability to write over 500 characters with no problems.

Mike Macgirvin

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:51:47 -0400 from zap

Mention format isn't an issue in streams. I think it's the only fediverse platform where you decide what mention format you want to see and everybody else sees exactly what they expect to see.

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:21:12 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

He said that I suffer from a famous syndrome that I can't remember the name now, of the person who doesn't want to accept the evolution, the "new" things that arrive, and lives in the past because he's afraid of the "new" and blah blah blah....

A.min

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 18:41:18 -0400 from Get Ready To Rumbly

I've been called "change-averse" before, but I prefer to think of it as "crap-averse".

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 19:25:53 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

Giac El Vecio

Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:22:20 -0400 from Unio Diversi Spiritus

I did a post days ago ..The evolution revolution.

Jupiter Rowland

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 03:41:05 -0400 from hubzilla

If they think newer is better, tell them the truth: Mastodon wasn't created in 2022 as a reaction upon Musk's announced Twitter takeover. It's from 2016. (streams), on the other hand, is from 2021 and therefore 5½ years newer than Mastodon.

Also, much of the stuff that Mastodon struggles to introduce and then introduces as a revolutionary new development has been readily available on Friendica, (streams)' oldest ancestor, as early as 2010. So much about new. Oh, and it's often much less of a pain to use on Friendica because it wasn't strapped to something established after seven years.

If they think it's outstanding that Mastodon can display text formatting: What do they think where formatted posts come from, if not from Mastodon which still can't format text itself?

Scott M. Stolz

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 04:18:29 -0400 from hubzilla

The problem is that a person can't experiment with every possible platform, app, or website out there, and people tend to go by word of mouth. Most of what people "know" is something someone else told them. They don't necessarily have first hand knowledge.

I see this all of the time. A good non-political example of rampant misinformation is the definition of a limited liability company (LLC). Even Wikipedia falsely claims a U.S. style LLC is similar to a private limited company. (My friend just submitted an update to correct that.) In reality, an LLC is structured similar to a partnership, except it can have one person. It is not structured anywhere near to a private limited company. Yet 99% of the websites out there spread this false information.

It's the same thing here. People who discovered Mastodon are spreading the information they heard from other people interested in Mastodon... and much of that information is inaccurate.

In many ways, it's like the children's game called "telephone" in the U.S., or called "Chinese Whispers" in the U.K. Every time someone passed on the information, it diverges to a point where it is inaccurate and sometimes even unrecognizable. Or, put another way, someone explained to grandma what Mastodon was, and she explained it to others. There is a loss of detail in the chain.

So if the information they started with was flawed, and then it gets worse as they pass it on...

Scott M. Stolz

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 05:31:34 -0400 from hubzilla

There are ways to spread information about these advanced fediverse technologies, but it would require a team to truly be effective. Unless one of us wants to become a internet famous influencer, which I don't think any of us wants that.

Basically, we need to create an organized and authoritative source of information.

There are talks of creating a Hubzilla Association, which would be non-profit and be a support organization for Hubzilla (and perhaps official components, and recognized forks, as well). That would help organize our efforts and also create an official source of information about our projects.

And I am thinking about forming a public benefit corporation (PBC) for the fediverse at large, but it would be focused on propagating some of the more advanced technologies such as OpenWebAuth and nomadic identity, and creating compatibility between diverse projects.

So it would initially be focused on Hubzilla, Streams, and their forks, but would expand as we get more projects to support OpenWebAuth, nomadic identity, and perhaps federated search. And we will be open to other advanced technologies if they can be integrated into Hubzilla, Streams, and their clones.

For example, if Bluesky finishes their AT protocol, I would love to see an addon that allows Hubzilla to talk to Bluesky. And I would think it would be hilarious if Hubzilla became the most popular server for Bluesky. LOL.

Humor aside, these are things I would love to see some to life, but, as I said, it needs more people than just me to make it happen.

So there are things we can do. It's just a matter of whether we will do them or not.

Moondust

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 12:43:48 -0400 from SocialWebs NODE9.org

In many ways, it's like the children's game called "telephone" in the U.S., or called "Chinese Whispers" in the U.K.

It seems that that "telephone" has also been used by some top communication IT people from EU countries (Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland...).